Real Fakery versus Digital Image Manipulation.

As most of you are aware I am against digital image manipulation, believing that all photos should be real. However I have used photo editing software on a couple of occasions, the first time was to change the background of a photo I had ‘borrowed’ from Google Images of a well known actress to be placed on the insert of a dvd case, a very lengthy process doing one pixel at a time all around her body, then having to change the colour to replicate the shadows. About twenty-five years later I entered a photo challenge on ukldf where I decided for Rosina to portray the ghost of Catherine from Wuthering Heights seen through the window from the inside. The Kate Bush song of the same name has the following lyrics ‘Heathcliff! It’s me, Cathy, I’m so cold, let me in through your window.’ I took a photo of Rosina’s head against a black background. The Yorkshire moors would be rather cold at night during the winter, so frost on the window pane would be expected, that gave me a problem; how could I replicate a frosted window pane? If I put a small sheet of glass covered in water in the freezer I would end up with a very cold piece of glass covered in ice, not what I wanted. I had a look at all the photo editing software I had. One had a frosted glass filter, the only problem was it was a loop, it started off as a clear piece of glass then began to get frosty. I played this several times to get the timing right, or rather almost right. I loaded Rosina’s photo, placed the filter over it then watched and waited, at the right time I pressed pause (or stop) then captured or saved the image. When I saw it I was surprised. Rosina’s face was about a foot away from the glass. If you looked at it sometimes you would only see the glass, if you tilted the screen you could then see her face. Brilliant! Incidently an upgrade of that software soon after removed all the filters, I timed it well!

So where’s all this going? you’re probably asking. Well, I want to expand on my point stated in an earlier post about attention to detail. I have seen numerous photos where attention to detail have either been ignored or forgotten due to rushing to get that particular shot. I’ll come back to this in a moment. I live in an Edwardian end-of-terrace property with a limited amount of space for photography. So certain tricks have to be employed. I would love to have a room solely for that purpose although it would involve taking the dolls to and from that room, also the concept of having a gantry of backdrops attached to the wall and/or ceiling does not appeal, in addition to restricting which wall could be used. I have come up with my own solution which I will share with you later.

Over the years that I have been a member of several forums and have seen numerous photos where attention to detail has been forgotten include; the use of a PE (photo editing) supplied background of a beach scene and the subject is wearing mirrored sunglasses that reflect the pictures on the far wall of the room used for the photo; where the colour of the carpet on the floor doesn’t quite match the sandy beach on the backdrop; feet that do not touch the ground where they are supposedly standing. I could go on but that’s enough to illustrate the problem.

The space I have is just a 4’x 4’ L shape, one wall is solid, the other has a doorway about twelve inches from the corner, also both of these have different wallcoverings. Since July 2024, when Leonora joined us, those walls and that ‘corner’ has to be the dining room where Elina and Rosina are often photographed, it’s where Leonora was when she modelled her clothes and later when she was in her room on her laptop, it will also be her home in Aberdeen. Obviously she wouldn’t have the same wallpaper there as we have here, so a disguise or fakery has to be employed. The other thing is whatever I use must be cheap, or ideally free. One of my favourites is something we all have in our homes, and that is spare curtains! Here are a few examples.


Leonora in her room at the Dollihaven using her laptop. The curtains hides the wall.

Rosina & Leonora doing a jigsaw. The curtains hides the door and wall covering into the corner.

Leonora in Aberdeen writing in her diary…

….working out how her new phone works.
The venetian blind is hiding the wall.

The curtains are either pegged to an old aluminium curtain track or a length of 19mm electrical conduit that is secured to two lengths of thin polypropylene twine (string) that is hung from two 13mm (½”) Gimp Pins secured in the plaster just below the coving. Likewise the venetian blind has two cable ties secured into a loop that the polypropylene twine is tied to.

The holes left when the Gimp Pins are removed are so small you’re unable to see them from ground level. I’ve been using Gimp Pins for many decades for supporting things like dado rails and covings that you don’t want to slip before the adhesive has set. Their original purpose is in upholstery, securing the fabric to the frame.

Gimp pins can be tapped into the plaster covering stone, brick or block masonry walls, they are also suitable for lath & plaster, plasterboard/drywall and of course wood. Tip: use a pair of pin nosed pliers to gently hold the pin as you tap it into the wall, saves a lot of bruises on your finger and/or thumb!

Regards,

S.

I used to use FaceApp quite a lot, just to make my girls look more real and because I was rubbish at makeup and really couldn’t be bothered to try and improve - I only get it smeared all over me when I try and move the girls and they’ve had make-up on their face.

But nowadays, I restrict any FaceApp of photos I do to one particular thread that is entitled “enhanced images” so there’s no confusion. I like taking shots of my girls, but I’m really not into all the technical wizardry of it. I’m quite happy just using my iPhone and I have one of those little selfie lights that you can attach to the phone that shines daylight. Apart from that, I don’t use anything else (although I will use the iPhone editing app to improve the light if the photo is too dull and dark. I’ve also been using coloured filters to try and improve the colour of the photo, but I’m becoming less inclined to do that these days too. I increasingly prefer the photo to be as natural as possible. Although I still very much like black & white photos. If it wasn’t for the fact that my garden is overlooked by a number of other properties, then I would do shots of my girls outside). Using curtains and blinds as backdrops is a very good idea. I’ve also hung up a large white soft blanket on occasion.

I have done hundreds of pictures of my dolls over the years, most can be found on this forum. The Willows Wilderness thread has many acton shots that got more and more wild the deeper into the thread you go.

But i do like to use digital trickery in a lot of those shots, to a) put the doll into another outdoor scene or b) change their expression somewhat.

These days I am using AI more to help tell the story of the picture. Of course i want to preserve the likeness of the doll as near as possible which is getting real good these days, and posing the doll as close to the image you are trying to create and taking a photo is very important in that. It helps to bring the shot alive.

A shot in progress.

Finished shot

I like all pictures of our dolls, but I like more the digital ones that put them into story situations. I plan to create videos of my dolls in stories soon. But they are going to be a LOT more work to create. :eek:

Well I have to say I use Ai a lot, mainly because I own Plushie dolls and to give them realism I have to use Ai. If I owned a TPE lady it might be different. I did try other Apps like background changes, but they are not great.

But I see it as a tool, to help me. I don't agree with all Ai or robotics, especially if they take humans jobs away. Ai should be there to serve us in whatever form it takes

I also 💙 Kate Bush. In her younger days they should have remade wuthering Heights and given her the part of Cathy. She would of done a blinding job!

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts on getting creative with our dolls, Esjayell. When I have an idea for a new theme, I use everything within reach to bring it to life: pegs, broomsticks — the sky's the limit! Maybe I should publish one of my catastrophes for everyone's delight.
I really enjoy doing this and I think this creativity is what sets it apart from simple AI.
To perfect the picture, I don't hesitate to use a bit of Photoshop.

Yeah, it would be good to see one of those photos. It might give us some inspiration and ideas.

As those of you who follow me know, I have been very vocal about AI enhanced or manipulated doll pictures. I know that using AI to do pictures can be fun. I have played with it myself like my recent gamer girl doll. That said...

A Different Take on Using AI vs. Doing It Yourself
When people talk about using AI to “tell the story of the picture,” I understand the appeal. It’s fast, it’s convenient, and the results can look acceptably good with surprisingly little effort. On doll forums, you’ll often see comments like “results are hit and miss,” which is honest, but it also hints at the core problem: AI cannot access the picture you’re seeing in your mind, no matter how carefully you prompt. You can write a thousand words of instructions and it still won’t replicate the exact scene, the exact lighting, or the exact emotional tone you intended. It will give you its interpretation, not your creation.

That’s why I look at things differently.

Take my photograph Maisie Meets Ailòna. It was extremely simple to create, but every part of it is exactly what I wanted, not what an algorithm guessed I wanted. Here is the raw setup before cropping...

The setup was nothing more than two dolls posed in front of a TV displaying one of my own landscape photos from a USB stick. I adjusted the TV’s brightness so the light falling on the dolls matched the lighting in the background. Even though Ailòna is a mythical character (anamorph) inspired by Scottish legend, Ailòna herself is a totally physical creation, part Monster High doll, part Phicen action figure, part Barbie fur suit, no AI tricks involved. No CGI, no compositing. Just a physical setup, a phone camera, and a single shutter press. The final crop didn’t invent anything, it simply framed what I built.

And the truth is, if I wanted “technical perfection,” I know how I would achieve it: not by sending the image through an AI filter, but by improving the physical scene itself. I could have added blackish gray spray-painted the gravel or the stone Ailòna is sitting on to better match the color of the lakeshore. I could have added the right foreground rocks, refined the tabletop terrain, or fine-tuned the poses, especially Maisie’s posture and hair flow, to match the atmosphere of that misty sunrise. Then I would retake the picture. That would keep the image 100% my work. ... or, then again, they could be standing on a smooth asphalt road hugging the shoreline and Maisie sitting on a quarried stone roadside barrier and leave the picture as is.

Using AI to fix the stone, or shift a pose, or “blend” the dolls into the background would undermine the reason I enjoy doing this at all. The magic of the scene comes from building something real, something I can see from every angle, adjust with my own hands, and capture exactly as I envision it.

When the backdrop is your own photo, the dolls are posed by your own hands, and the final image is created by your own camera, you end up with something AI can never give you:

Your vision, rendered faithfully.
Your scene, lit by your choices.
Your photograph, not an approximation.

AI can imitate an idea, but it can’t see into your imagination. A real setup can. And that's why my bestie will never use it for doll photography.

But another point is that achieving 'eye candy', without resorting to AI, is really not that hard.

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I like to put the odd photo of my girls through FaceApp or ChatGPT, but much less so these days (although I’m having a little fun with Grace and her cosplay thread).
I’m not even bothering to use filtration as much as I did. I kind of feel that I’m coming through that phase of trying out different ways to manipulate an image to improve it, and now doing nothing more than perhaps adjusting the lighting to make the image clearer (I’m still a great fan of monochrome, black-and-white photography though). I’m even coming to the point where I am dressing the dolls in clothes that I want to see them in, and not necessarily clothes that would make good photographs - I’m not dressing them according to what I think other people would like to see, but what I want them to be wearing around the house. I’m going to be taking far fewer photographs too - I won’t stop altogether but I didn’t buy my girls to be photographic models in the first place, although I have enjoyed doing a lot of photography with them. But that is not my reason for having them, I just like dolls and having them around.
So, I can appreciate this thread that describes how to be creative without resorting to artificial manipulation of the images to try and improve them. As you quite rightly say, AI can’t recreate the image that you have in your imagination. We might use AI to inspire our creativity, but we cannot use it to replace our imagination.

I do a lot of AI stuff for Deviant Art. More often than not though, I find myself manually editing AI renders to get them where I want them. Trying to get AI models to follow a prompt is a real pain sometimes. Every now and then though, they come up with something that just blows me away. Like that pic I posted of my Priya on another thread. Far exceeded my expectations. I can't stop staring at it.

Well maybe I'm not as creative as some of you guys, i kind of know what i want to achieve and Ai does it, eventually. I use it a lot for Thea to make her look more realistic. I use it a lot to create the little stories on Bobby's blog that i sometimes do, yet i still have to search for the backgrounds i want and think about the effects i require before asking Ai to create it, so i guess theres still some creativity in that. I do the blueprint and ai creates it. A lot of my backgrounds are actually taken from the towns or places themselves.

I think i actually went to Brighton in an early story and used photos i had taken and just added the girls with Ai or Thea.

I love her as she is, but sometimes i do wish i could of got her a TPE body, but due to my circumstances thats not really possible and I'm quite heavy handed and move around a lot in my single bed and i do like to snuggle with my lovely girls.

I tend not to do a lot of photos, unless i have a story in mind. Also i don't have a lot of room to store clothes for all my ladies and they like to hang out a lot in their undies, as they are plushie, but are kept warm on cold nights by me or each other and also duvets so no one goes cold here😊

I am feeling that those that like to photo their dolls stood against a wall are starting to try and make us digital users feel like we are lazy, or some other negitive because we use AI to help make our pictures. Well, there is a lot of work in making the pictures and some of us put a lot of effort into it. Yes, they don't always come out as we expect. Most of the time we have to make multiple tries to get the photograph to look something like we want, at great cost because you have to pay a monthly fee to make a lot of retries. But often the picture we come too are BETTER in every way to what we would have achieved just by taking a photo of our dolls. Action shots, emotional shots and costumes we can't afford to buy etc.

At the end of the day someone has taken time out of their day to make the photograph and display it for others to see. I do all the taking pictures of the real doll and then the extra digital stuff afterwards. I do sometimes (but not always) put the real doll shot at the bottom of the post so you can see the difference. So you can benefit from both.

If you don't like AI for whatever reason and don't want to use it, its fine. People didn't want to drive cars when they first appeared, preferring their trusty old horse. Or watch TV when they had their wireless. Or recently, drive electric cars when they can use combustion engine cars. Nothing wrong with any of that, but things do progress.

So please lay off trying to make us feel guilty for using AI. It's the future and AI is here to stay. You can't stop it!...

Yes i have to agree with Mr. Story in the fact it took me nearly a week to create my Halloween story. I can't afford to subscribe to Ai Chat GPT and it would only allow me to do three edits a day and if it messed up I'd have to wait another day. The background scenes i spent time searching for and were all taken from Edinburgh where Thea stayed. Even the bus was the proper Ghost tour bus not ai created and the outside of the hotel, the graveyard scene and the underground tunnels were all original photos.

Obviously i love doing it for my girls, myself and you guys on the forum, but it does take a lot of time and if Ai messes the edit up you have to wait

The good news for me is after days of searching and trying different apps i actually found one that is free and gives me unlimited edits 😊

I hope I’m not making anyone feel guilty about using AI. I still do use FaceApp ChatGPT for some of my photos, but any comments I made are just a general reflection of the fact that I’m becoming less interested in the photographic side of things and focusing more on just enjoying the dolls at home for who they are.
All forms of photography and image creation have their place.

Not me mate😊, i just wanted to to explain to folk that it does take time even using AI and to be honest i wouldnt be much good at using those photo apps. Also its a bit different for me as i like to make little stories up for my girls which they enjoy and i can't really take my girls outside

I personally enjoy looking at natural photos and those done with ai on here and you have even created a Thread for your girls specifically for ai enhanced photos, so folk do have a choice 😊

I’ve put a few AI photos in that thread today, that I’m very pleased with. Just about to put a very sensual one of Lorna there.

Yeah, same thing happened when digital cameras came along. All the film guys screamed that wasn't real photography. Now that's all there is. Computer graphics have been with us for quite a while now. It's really nothing new. AI just makes the process a little less tedious.

Whether you physically set the scene, manually manipulate an image or enlist the help of AI, human imagination and creativity is still at play. Like any other tool, AI just speeds things up and increases productivity.

Guiding AI is not that easy though. It's a lot of work that in many ways can be more difficult than doing things manually. Reminds me of when I was in the film business. I'd give on camera talent very clear, concise instructions and damned if they wouldn't turn around and do something else! And like AI, you still had to pay them... :ROFLMAO:

Film to digital was a change in medium.
AI image generation is a change in authorship.

A digital camera still faithfully records whatever the artist actually creates.
AI, by contrast, invents content the artist did not make.
That’s why the analogy between the two is not valid.
When film photographers switched to digital, nothing about the creative role of the artist changed. The photographer still chose the subject, arranged the lighting, composed the shot, timed the shutter, and controlled every element that appeared in the frame. The camera, whether film or digital, simply captured the real scene the photographer deliberately set up.

AI image generation functions in a completely different way. Instead of capturing something the artist physically created or directly manipulated, AI generates an image from scratch. It is not responding to light, a subject, a composition, or the artist’s technical execution. It is interpreting text (even with an uploaded image) and producing its own version of the idea, often adding details, structures, or stylistic choices the artist never intended. This makes the AI a co-author, not a neutral tool.

For example, imagine a photographer shooting a portrait:

• With film or digital, the photographer chooses the model, lighting, lens, pose, expression, background, and timing.
• With AI generation, the photographer writes a prompt like “woman in soft window light” and the AI invents the face, bone structure, clothing folds, and the entire scene. Those aren’t the photographer’s creative decisions; they’re the AI’s.

Or imagine an illustrator designing a character. With pencil, ink, watercolor, or a digital art tablet, every line, proportion, and gesture is drawn by the artist’s hand and eye. With AI image generation, the system decides what the anatomy looks like, what the shadows do, how the costume flows, often in ways the artist didn’t picture. Even if the artist prompts repeatedly and tweaks endlessly, they’re still reacting to the AI’s guesses, not authoring the image stroke by stroke.

That is why comparing “film vs. digital” to “artists vs. AI” doesn’t hold up. Film-to-digital was simply adopting a new recording medium — the principles of photography, craft, and authorship stayed the same. AI is not a new medium; it is a new source of imagery that makes creative decisions the artist used to make personally.

One is a tool change.
The other is a role change.

And that’s the heart of the difference.
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I wasn't making an analogy between AI and digital photography. Only saying that people bemoaned that new technology the same way they do AI today. People just have a tendency to resist change.

The analogy, if one was made, was between computer graphics, manual photo manipulation and AI. As all involve presenting something that either doesn't physically exist or is not as it actually appeared. But like I said, human imagination and creativity is still at play regardless. Yeah, AI is doing the heavy lifting, but it's still man's artistic input that gets the ball rolling.

I've been doing this a long time. I and others were making static images move, adding things to and taking things away from photos long before AI came along. AI just expands on that. True, the artist doesn't have as much control on the outcome, but then AI allows the artist to do things and explore areas not otherwise possible.

AI is a great tool. Now if I could only get it to make a hand with the correct number of fingers. :ROFLMAO:

Hanna, you forgot the image to image function where you input an image of the character, the scene they are in and even the clothes to wear. Then you have control on the lighting by prompt and other things such as pose input by the auther. A lot of poses aren't possible with a real doll as their legs won't support it, and none of us want our dolls falling on the floor. AI left to itself is not as good, and reference images and prompting goes a long way. You get out of it what you put in.

I really appreciate how honest you’re being about this topic. What you said actually clicked with me, especially the part about becoming less interested in the photographic “perfection” and more focused on simply enjoying your dolls for who they are, the way they live with you at home.

IMHO, what you are feeling is really important: when we push too hard for the perfect image, or the perfect face, or perfect clothes, or perfect styling, it can start pulling us away from the simple fun and companionship that drew us to dolls in the first place.

Just so you know, I’ve followed your girls religiously since I joined MLDC. I sincerely believe that some of the best photos on this entire forum are yours, and the affection you have for your girls comes through in every one of your unenhanced shots. Your photos in “Recreated Glamour Photos” thread are incredible. But I have to say, out of the hundreds of pictures that you’ve shared, the one of Lorna on the kitchen counter is the picture that speaks to me the most.

It is the most human, emotionally stirring moment you’ve ever posted, and it speaks to me more than any AI enhancement ever could.

🤗 🤗 Hanna 🥰 🥰
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Well my girls are more like cuddle companions to me than photographic Models, i bought Coco as a companion and then Thea and Buffy came to live with me and they are my companions and cuddle buddies. They are not really photographic Models or Muses. Thats why i don't do glamour shots, etc. If i owned a TPE doll it might be different, but my girls are more fantasy Dolls. I mean Buffy thinks shes a plush version of Sharon Stone, for goodness sake🤣🤣

The stories i do are just for fun, i enjoy doing them when i have time, i just like having fun here on the forum. Its a break from all the bad stuff in the world.

Even my name and persona were created for fun and a laugh. I try not to be too serious on here and just have a laugh and i like all everyones efforts whether its Ai or natural photography😊

I mean if you had photography competitions on here i probably wouldn't enter as I'd have a cat in hells chance of winning, as my girls aren't as realistic as TPE ladies, but that doesn't bother me. My girls are foremost my buddies before anything else😊" Hey boys I'm Sharon Stone "

Thanks for the positive comments. I seem to be getting far more out of just taking quick snaps of my girls in ordinary situations, not really posed for photographs but set up to accompany me when I’m preparing food, sitting on the sofa watching a movie or reading a book, or in Jemma’s case, just lying next to me in bed. Or in a number of cases now, I haven’t taken any photographs, I’ve just had a doll with me. This one of Lorna was certainly about her just being with me while I cooked dinner (hence the thread she’s in, which isn’t so much about photography, but enjoyment and just presence).
Tania has been with me in the kitchen for a couple of days, but today I felt she needed a good wash so she’s currently drying off upstairs. I’ll be dressing Lorna again tomorrow so that she can spend the weekend with me downstairs. I will post a photo of that, but as you say, it won’t be about photographic perfection, it will just be to show her spending time with me.

Wow, she looks like a Teddy Babe in that one! This is where AI shines. Making the impossible completely doable.

Well it wasn't exactly what i wanted i was trying to give Buffy the real face of Sharon Stone and keep the rest of the body as plush, just for some fun, i showed Buffy this and she seemed happy with it, but yeah i guess she does look like a Teddy Babe😆

Very cool Buffy are you going to do the part where Sharon crosses her legs too, probably best to put that on the Chilli forums😯😆 its bloody chilly this morning i know that 👍